diff --git a/Include/internal/pycore_object.h b/Include/internal/pycore_object.h
index 1e1b664000f1081..9aa2e5bf918a7b9 100644
--- a/Include/internal/pycore_object.h
+++ b/Include/internal/pycore_object.h
@@ -86,9 +86,9 @@ PyAPI_FUNC(void) _Py_NO_RETURN _Py_FatalRefcountErrorFunc(
    built against the pre-3.12 stable ABI. */
 PyAPI_DATA(Py_ssize_t) _Py_RefTotal;
 
-extern void _Py_AddRefTotal(PyInterpreterState *, Py_ssize_t);
-extern void _Py_IncRefTotal(PyInterpreterState *);
-extern void _Py_DecRefTotal(PyInterpreterState *);
+extern void _Py_AddRefTotal(PyThreadState *, Py_ssize_t);
+extern void _Py_IncRefTotal(PyThreadState *);
+extern void _Py_DecRefTotal(PyThreadState *);
 
 #  define _Py_DEC_REFTOTAL(interp) \
     interp->object_state.reftotal--
@@ -101,7 +101,7 @@ static inline void _Py_RefcntAdd(PyObject* op, Py_ssize_t n)
         return;
     }
 #ifdef Py_REF_DEBUG
-    _Py_AddRefTotal(_PyInterpreterState_GET(), n);
+    _Py_AddRefTotal(_PyThreadState_GET(), n);
 #endif
 #if !defined(Py_GIL_DISABLED)
     op->ob_refcnt += n;
@@ -393,7 +393,7 @@ _Py_TryIncrefFast(PyObject *op) {
         _Py_INCREF_STAT_INC();
         _Py_atomic_store_uint32_relaxed(&op->ob_ref_local, local);
 #ifdef Py_REF_DEBUG
-        _Py_IncRefTotal(_PyInterpreterState_GET());
+        _Py_IncRefTotal(_PyThreadState_GET());
 #endif
         return 1;
     }
@@ -416,7 +416,7 @@ _Py_TryIncRefShared(PyObject *op)
                 &shared,
                 shared + (1 << _Py_REF_SHARED_SHIFT))) {
 #ifdef Py_REF_DEBUG
-            _Py_IncRefTotal(_PyInterpreterState_GET());
+            _Py_IncRefTotal(_PyThreadState_GET());
 #endif
             _Py_INCREF_STAT_INC();
             return 1;
diff --git a/Include/internal/pycore_tstate.h b/Include/internal/pycore_tstate.h
index e268e6fbbb087b2..733e3172a1c0ff6 100644
--- a/Include/internal/pycore_tstate.h
+++ b/Include/internal/pycore_tstate.h
@@ -38,6 +38,10 @@ typedef struct _PyThreadStateImpl {
     struct _brc_thread_state brc;
 #endif
 
+#if defined(Py_REF_DEBUG) && defined(Py_GIL_DISABLED)
+    Py_ssize_t reftotal;  // this thread's total refcount operations
+#endif
+
 } _PyThreadStateImpl;
 
 
diff --git a/Objects/bytesobject.c b/Objects/bytesobject.c
index d7b0c6b7b01aa98..d576dd93f05e103 100644
--- a/Objects/bytesobject.c
+++ b/Objects/bytesobject.c
@@ -3118,7 +3118,7 @@ _PyBytes_Resize(PyObject **pv, Py_ssize_t newsize)
         PyObject_Realloc(v, PyBytesObject_SIZE + newsize);
     if (*pv == NULL) {
 #ifdef Py_REF_DEBUG
-        _Py_DecRefTotal(_PyInterpreterState_GET());
+        _Py_DecRefTotal(_PyThreadState_GET());
 #endif
         PyObject_Free(v);
         PyErr_NoMemory();
diff --git a/Objects/dictobject.c b/Objects/dictobject.c
index 9218b1aa470663e..e7993e4b051433a 100644
--- a/Objects/dictobject.c
+++ b/Objects/dictobject.c
@@ -445,7 +445,7 @@ dictkeys_incref(PyDictKeysObject *dk)
         return;
     }
 #ifdef Py_REF_DEBUG
-    _Py_IncRefTotal(_PyInterpreterState_GET());
+    _Py_IncRefTotal(_PyThreadState_GET());
 #endif
     INCREF_KEYS(dk);
 }
@@ -458,7 +458,7 @@ dictkeys_decref(PyInterpreterState *interp, PyDictKeysObject *dk, bool use_qsbr)
     }
     assert(dk->dk_refcnt > 0);
 #ifdef Py_REF_DEBUG
-    _Py_DecRefTotal(_PyInterpreterState_GET());
+    _Py_DecRefTotal(_PyThreadState_GET());
 #endif
     if (DECREF_KEYS(dk) == 1) {
         if (DK_IS_UNICODE(dk)) {
@@ -790,7 +790,7 @@ new_keys_object(PyInterpreterState *interp, uint8_t log2_size, bool unicode)
         }
     }
 #ifdef Py_REF_DEBUG
-    _Py_IncRefTotal(_PyInterpreterState_GET());
+    _Py_IncRefTotal(_PyThreadState_GET());
 #endif
     dk->dk_refcnt = 1;
     dk->dk_log2_size = log2_size;
@@ -978,7 +978,7 @@ clone_combined_dict_keys(PyDictObject *orig)
        we have it now; calling dictkeys_incref would be an error as
        keys->dk_refcnt is already set to 1 (after memcpy). */
 #ifdef Py_REF_DEBUG
-    _Py_IncRefTotal(_PyInterpreterState_GET());
+    _Py_IncRefTotal(_PyThreadState_GET());
 #endif
     return keys;
 }
@@ -2021,7 +2021,7 @@ dictresize(PyInterpreterState *interp, PyDictObject *mp,
 
         if (oldkeys != Py_EMPTY_KEYS) {
 #ifdef Py_REF_DEBUG
-            _Py_DecRefTotal(_PyInterpreterState_GET());
+            _Py_DecRefTotal(_PyThreadState_GET());
 #endif
             assert(oldkeys->dk_kind != DICT_KEYS_SPLIT);
             assert(oldkeys->dk_refcnt == 1);
diff --git a/Objects/object.c b/Objects/object.c
index 60642d899bcafad..c8e6f8fc1a2b40e 100644
--- a/Objects/object.c
+++ b/Objects/object.c
@@ -73,21 +73,16 @@ get_legacy_reftotal(void)
     interp->object_state.reftotal
 
 static inline void
-reftotal_increment(PyInterpreterState *interp)
+reftotal_add(PyThreadState *tstate, Py_ssize_t n)
 {
-    REFTOTAL(interp)++;
-}
-
-static inline void
-reftotal_decrement(PyInterpreterState *interp)
-{
-    REFTOTAL(interp)--;
-}
-
-static inline void
-reftotal_add(PyInterpreterState *interp, Py_ssize_t n)
-{
-    REFTOTAL(interp) += n;
+#ifdef Py_GIL_DISABLED
+    _PyThreadStateImpl *tstate_impl = (_PyThreadStateImpl *)tstate;
+    // relaxed store to avoid data race with read in get_reftotal()
+    Py_ssize_t reftotal = tstate_impl->reftotal + n;
+    _Py_atomic_store_ssize_relaxed(&tstate_impl->reftotal, reftotal);
+#else
+    REFTOTAL(tstate->interp) += n;
+#endif
 }
 
 static inline Py_ssize_t get_global_reftotal(_PyRuntimeState *);
@@ -117,7 +112,15 @@ get_reftotal(PyInterpreterState *interp)
 {
     /* For a single interpreter, we ignore the legacy _Py_RefTotal,
        since we can't determine which interpreter updated it. */
-    return REFTOTAL(interp);
+    Py_ssize_t total = REFTOTAL(interp);
+#ifdef Py_GIL_DISABLED
+    for (PyThreadState *p = interp->threads.head; p != NULL; p = p->next) {
+        /* This may race with other threads modifications to their reftotal */
+        _PyThreadStateImpl *tstate_impl = (_PyThreadStateImpl *)p;
+        total += _Py_atomic_load_ssize_relaxed(&tstate_impl->reftotal);
+    }
+#endif
+    return total;
 }
 
 static inline Py_ssize_t
@@ -129,7 +132,7 @@ get_global_reftotal(_PyRuntimeState *runtime)
     HEAD_LOCK(&_PyRuntime);
     PyInterpreterState *interp = PyInterpreterState_Head();
     for (; interp != NULL; interp = PyInterpreterState_Next(interp)) {
-        total += REFTOTAL(interp);
+        total += get_reftotal(interp);
     }
     HEAD_UNLOCK(&_PyRuntime);
 
@@ -222,32 +225,32 @@ _Py_NegativeRefcount(const char *filename, int lineno, PyObject *op)
 void
 _Py_INCREF_IncRefTotal(void)
 {
-    reftotal_increment(_PyInterpreterState_GET());
+    reftotal_add(_PyThreadState_GET(), 1);
 }
 
 /* This is used strictly by Py_DECREF(). */
 void
 _Py_DECREF_DecRefTotal(void)
 {
-    reftotal_decrement(_PyInterpreterState_GET());
+    reftotal_add(_PyThreadState_GET(), -1);
 }
 
 void
-_Py_IncRefTotal(PyInterpreterState *interp)
+_Py_IncRefTotal(PyThreadState *tstate)
 {
-    reftotal_increment(interp);
+    reftotal_add(tstate, 1);
 }
 
 void
-_Py_DecRefTotal(PyInterpreterState *interp)
+_Py_DecRefTotal(PyThreadState *tstate)
 {
-    reftotal_decrement(interp);
+    reftotal_add(tstate, -1);
 }
 
 void
-_Py_AddRefTotal(PyInterpreterState *interp, Py_ssize_t n)
+_Py_AddRefTotal(PyThreadState *tstate, Py_ssize_t n)
 {
-    reftotal_add(interp, n);
+    reftotal_add(tstate, n);
 }
 
 /* This includes the legacy total
@@ -267,7 +270,10 @@ _Py_GetLegacyRefTotal(void)
 Py_ssize_t
 _PyInterpreterState_GetRefTotal(PyInterpreterState *interp)
 {
-    return get_reftotal(interp);
+    HEAD_LOCK(&_PyRuntime);
+    Py_ssize_t total = get_reftotal(interp);
+    HEAD_UNLOCK(&_PyRuntime);
+    return total;
 }
 
 #endif /* Py_REF_DEBUG */
@@ -345,7 +351,7 @@ _Py_DecRefSharedDebug(PyObject *o, const char *filename, int lineno)
 
     if (should_queue) {
 #ifdef Py_REF_DEBUG
-        _Py_IncRefTotal(_PyInterpreterState_GET());
+        _Py_IncRefTotal(_PyThreadState_GET());
 #endif
         _Py_brc_queue_object(o);
     }
@@ -405,7 +411,7 @@ _Py_ExplicitMergeRefcount(PyObject *op, Py_ssize_t extra)
                                                 &shared, new_shared));
 
 #ifdef Py_REF_DEBUG
-    _Py_AddRefTotal(_PyInterpreterState_GET(), extra);
+    _Py_AddRefTotal(_PyThreadState_GET(), extra);
 #endif
 
     _Py_atomic_store_uint32_relaxed(&op->ob_ref_local, 0);
@@ -2376,7 +2382,7 @@ void
 _Py_NewReference(PyObject *op)
 {
 #ifdef Py_REF_DEBUG
-    reftotal_increment(_PyInterpreterState_GET());
+    _Py_IncRefTotal(_PyThreadState_GET());
 #endif
     new_reference(op);
 }
diff --git a/Objects/tupleobject.c b/Objects/tupleobject.c
index d9dc00da368a84c..5ae1ee9a89af84c 100644
--- a/Objects/tupleobject.c
+++ b/Objects/tupleobject.c
@@ -946,7 +946,7 @@ _PyTuple_Resize(PyObject **pv, Py_ssize_t newsize)
     if (sv == NULL) {
         *pv = NULL;
 #ifdef Py_REF_DEBUG
-        _Py_DecRefTotal(_PyInterpreterState_GET());
+        _Py_DecRefTotal(_PyThreadState_GET());
 #endif
         PyObject_GC_Del(v);
         return -1;
diff --git a/Objects/unicodeobject.c b/Objects/unicodeobject.c
index e135638c696fa47..59b350f0a609a65 100644
--- a/Objects/unicodeobject.c
+++ b/Objects/unicodeobject.c
@@ -14916,7 +14916,7 @@ _PyUnicode_InternInPlace(PyInterpreterState *interp, PyObject **p)
        decrements to these objects will not be registered so they
        need to be accounted for in here. */
     for (Py_ssize_t i = 0; i < Py_REFCNT(s) - 2; i++) {
-        _Py_DecRefTotal(_PyInterpreterState_GET());
+        _Py_DecRefTotal(_PyThreadState_GET());
     }
 #endif
     _Py_SetImmortal(s);
diff --git a/Python/gc_free_threading.c b/Python/gc_free_threading.c
index 7e4137a8e342b13..111632ffb776410 100644
--- a/Python/gc_free_threading.c
+++ b/Python/gc_free_threading.c
@@ -168,7 +168,7 @@ merge_refcount(PyObject *op, Py_ssize_t extra)
     refcount += extra;
 
 #ifdef Py_REF_DEBUG
-    _Py_AddRefTotal(_PyInterpreterState_GET(), extra);
+    _Py_AddRefTotal(_PyThreadState_GET(), extra);
 #endif
 
     // No atomics necessary; all other threads in this interpreter are paused.
@@ -307,7 +307,7 @@ merge_queued_objects(_PyThreadStateImpl *tstate, struct collection_state *state)
             // decref and deallocate the object once we start the world again.
             op->ob_ref_shared += (1 << _Py_REF_SHARED_SHIFT);
 #ifdef Py_REF_DEBUG
-            _Py_IncRefTotal(_PyInterpreterState_GET());
+            _Py_IncRefTotal(_PyThreadState_GET());
 #endif
             worklist_push(&state->objs_to_decref, op);
         }
diff --git a/Python/pystate.c b/Python/pystate.c
index cee481c564b0cb6..4a52f6444ba10a6 100644
--- a/Python/pystate.c
+++ b/Python/pystate.c
@@ -1698,6 +1698,14 @@ tstate_delete_common(PyThreadState *tstate)
             decrement_stoptheworld_countdown(&runtime->stoptheworld);
         }
     }
+
+#if defined(Py_REF_DEBUG) && defined(Py_GIL_DISABLED)
+    // Add our portion of the total refcount to the interpreter's total.
+    _PyThreadStateImpl *tstate_impl = (_PyThreadStateImpl *)tstate;
+    tstate->interp->object_state.reftotal += tstate_impl->reftotal;
+    tstate_impl->reftotal = 0;
+#endif
+
     HEAD_UNLOCK(runtime);
 
 #ifdef Py_GIL_DISABLED