Python 3 compatibility?

[jleclanche]

Alright, I'll straight up ask: What's the status of Python 3 compatibility for this runtime? Never/Maybe someday/Working on it?

[trotterdylan]

We have a large Python 2.7 codebase so that's what we've been focused on. I definitely would like to support Python 3. It's just a bunch of work. Probably requires forking grumpy and building out all the v3 features.

Another path may be to support Python 3 features in the existing Grumpy runtime and transpiler at the risk of making things less maintainable.

[jacobmischka]

I think in the meantime it should be noted very explicitly that it's a python2 runtime. Both the repo and the associated blog post just mention "python" everywhere except in one sentence that mentions 2.7. It's 2017, "python" should really mean python3 by now.

Regardless, this looks really neat, great work everyone!

[trotterdylan]

That's fair, I'll update the README.

[jacobmischka]

Thanks! Sorry to be blunt 🐣

[marcintustin]

I honestly don't think python means python 3, and it's completely fair to only support the vast majority of python code in production.

If nothing else "python 3" is still a moving target because - whatever its partisans like to say - the project operates as if it were a research language.

[ClaymorePT]

@marcintustin

Python3 is still a moving target

Have you seen this? -> https://pythonclock.org/

[wimglenn]

It's 2017. There is Python and there is The Language Formerly Known as Python.

[jacobmischka]

Certainly it's fair to only support what they're using it for. I just asked that it be made clear.

[marcintustin]

@ClaymorePT Page me when that stops being extended or python 3 represents a stable target that most python code targets. I fundamentally don't care about the CPython maintenance schedule because it's clear the community as a whole is still investing in Python 2.7. Grumpy is one example of that.

[jleclanche]

This is honestly not the place to argue whether you prefer python 2 or 3, or whether to invest into python 2 or 3. I opened this issue to figure out how likely it is for grumpy to get 3 support because I personally am really, really interested in this project and would like to use it for Python 3 code.

[thalesmello]

@trotterdylan

Are there any official Google projects that use Python 3, or folks over there plan on using Python 2 for the next 10 years?

Has Google ever considered migrating to Python 3?

Maybe tools like 2to3 could ease up the process?

I'm not trying to play the troll here, those are sincere questions.

I would really like to see Python 3 support in grumpy, but I completely understand the desired goals of the project.

[ClaymorePT]

10 years have passed since the arrival of Python 3. It is already at version 3.6, one before the last release of Python 2.7.
If until now, they did not consider moving on to Python 3, then I don't think they ever will.
Besides, they also have Go and Clang.

[cclauss]

8.58 years but who is counting ;-) "Patience is a virtue but I don't have the time." -- Talking Heads

from datetime import date
delta = date.today() - date(2008, 12, 3)
print(f'{delta.days / 365.25:.2f} years')  # f-strings require Python 3.6 or later

[ClaymorePT]

I stand corrected!

[Azareal]

https://opensource.googleblog.com/2017/01/grumpy-go-running-python.html

Google runs millions of lines of Python code.

Millions of lines of working Python code which they would have to thoroughly test, etc. before rolling out a Python 3 equivalent. I'm not really sure it makes sense from a business standpoint, especially since they've built their own system.

While Python 3 is obviously on my wishlist, I personally can't see it happening for the next five years or so. This project is a massive undertaking to begin with.