-
Notifications
You must be signed in to change notification settings - Fork 7
New issue
Have a question about this project? Sign up for a free GitHub account to open an issue and contact its maintainers and the community.
By clicking “Sign up for GitHub”, you agree to our terms of service and privacy statement. We’ll occasionally send you account related emails.
Already on GitHub? Sign in to your account
RTM backplane clock distribution #27
Comments
@gkasprow In phone conversation today it was mentioned that the "RTM backplane" was single-ended. However, the DESY specification sheet it looks like both single-ended and differential options are available. |
All looks good to me. I'd vote for LVPECL clocks, as it's easier to distribute them without degrading the phase noise. The LTC6957-1 looks like a nice way of squaring up the input square wave. Note that the phase noise degrades as the input power decreases, which suggests that we should avoid passive splitting before squaring if possible. Is the delay + divide functionality of the LTC6954-1 required for the 100MHz clock? This IC has a propagation delay temp co that's about an order of magnitude larger than a good straight buffer IC. If we want to keep the option open of using this 100MHz clock to generate LOs, we need to be careful over this. For two buffers in series, the (typical) temp co is 2*0.7ps/K = 1.4ps/K = 5deg/K @10Ghz, which would be a complete killer! |
Is adclk944 OK for you as a clock splitter for mezzanine 100MHz distribution? |
ADCLK944 would probably be my first choice for this (excellent noise and propagation delay stability). But, there are other good HMC/ADI/LTC/whoever parts as well, which I would be equally happy with. Edit: on second thoughts, any reason not to use an ADCLK950, which gives you 10 outputs (and a mux for free, which might come in use)? The temp co will be better than two ADCLK944 in series. The only downside is that they don't specify the residual phase noise for the ADCLK950 (absolute only, and the measurement looks to be limited by the clock source they used), so we'd want to check that... |
That’s true, for low frequency ADC clock distribution we used diff lines. |
@jbqubit: the RF back plane does implement differential lines that go out on an ERNI connector, for "Square" clocks i would say up to 100 MHz to keep good performance, the single ended lines are for RF and LO distribution. |
Probably LVPECL differenctial clocks would be the best but there is one issue, the rise and fall times of LVPECS are quite small (usally leading to better ADC/DAC performance) which makes the signal bandwidth wider, thus upon going through at least two connectors and "long distances" the various harmonics have a different flight time and matching (the higher the harmonic, the worse the matching and the higher frequencies are damped more etc...) then when they reach the reciever they will not be so pretty. same thing goes for temeprature drifts(if it is an issue) upon temeprature changes,different harmonics get different delays and the same thing happens. this could be tested to see performance degradation (i can check, but im not really sure LVPECL was really tested by the designers) - I should meet the guys tomorrow, Ill get out as much info as I can. |
Discussed this in google hangout on 10/21. @sbouhabib raises an important consideration. Path from RTM clock generation slot to the Sayma RTM analog mezzanine traverses many steps. Many transitions...
Narrow-band 100 MHz distribution directly to the Sayma RTM clock mezzanine avoids these difficulties. Low phase noise narrow band distribution amplifiers are available. |
@sbouhabib What are you worried about here? Reflections from impedance discontinuities at the transitions? The reasons I'd prefer to distribute the 100MHz clock via the RTM backplane if possible are:
Even though there are a few transitions in the RTM clock distribution chain, they are all made using high-frequency connectors + layout techniques. Thus, even in the GHz regime, reflections should be small. Moreover, as the whole thing is rigidly bolted together, any phase shifts due to reflections will be stable, and hence should not cause problems. edit: Don't forget, we still have the fallback option of distributing the DAC clock directly to the RTMs via a front-panel SMA, and cutting out the 100MHz PLL entirely... |
ping @sbouhabib |
I totally agree that the RF backplane is the way to go, I was proposing this long ago from the first visit that came to Warsaw. |
@sbouhabib What are the ERNI connectors like at a few GHz (the PECL drivers will give fast rising edges with lots of harmonics)?
Do you mean distributing both a PECL square-wave and a 100MHz sine over the RF backplane and then routing both to the clock board? |
I had some tests made myself for the connectors, and i downloaded the model for the connector from erni, Im not at my work PC at the moment I should send the sims tomorrow, but in general at a few GHz already the ERNI is not so optimal, for narrow-band/single frequency operation it is already on the edge due to mismatches and imbalance in pair length. If the analog channels on the backplane are not used for anything at the moment, it is a possibility to think about, a single line with a physical jumper is not much of additional work.(just a thought) even though the signal wouldn't be provided at the moment. I just got this info: the clock distribution was tested using the LVPECL buffer HMC987 @81MHZ which has very fast edges,I got the phase noise results, i will give them a quick analysis as and get back to you |
Unfortunately my concerns were true. In sum:
This all can be tested but would require additional work using the precise drivers and receivers that we would want to use to check "is it good enough". without precise measurements, we can keep it this way and leave the possibility to use one of the reference signals for clock generation/distribution using jumpers and we have of course the final fall-back option: the SMA |
@sbouhabib Thanks for the update.
I'm not up to speed on uTCA.4 terminology, so let me check I understand what you mean here -- apologies if this is (re-)stating obvious things:
Is that all correct? If so, what fanout buffer/distribution amplifier would you use to generate the clocks for the REF lines? And, would they be sine or square-wave? One option might be to use the PECL chips, along with baluns (TCM2-43X+ or similar) at either end. |
@hartytp : all is correct, as for distribution we could do it this way, i think that it might be better for them to be sine waves, although the PECL chips tend to have really good jitter properties, one could use the fanout PECL chips with smaller bandwidth baluns and get the base frequency (with a few non-problematic harmonics). let me think more :) and analyze this for a while and answer after the weekend. |
@sbouhabib Sounds good. A couple of thoughts:
|
@sbouhabib Yes, thank you for looking into this. ERNI ERmetZD 973062 application note [0] reports eye diagrams for 5 Gb data rate. I can't find any performance specifications for RADIALL R694.251.027. Anybody find details on this? [0] http://www.erni.com/fileadmin/medien/downloadcenter/ermetzd/ERmet_ZD-Appl_note.pdf |
@sbouhabib "the clock distribution was tested using the LVPECL buffer HMC987 @81MHZ which has very fast edges,I got the phase noise results, i will give them a quick analysis as and get back to you" What are your phase noise results form this study? |
Resolved by #40. The microTCA.4 RF Backplane will be used for clock distribution. eRTM15 provides clock distribution to RTM slots 4 to 12.
|
The microTCA.4 RF Backplane will be used for clock distribution.
achives 100 dB isolation, -174 dBc/Hz at 10 kHz, +16 dBm output
The text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered: