Monero Community Workgroup Meeting: Saturday 8th July 2023 @ 15:00 UTC

[plowsof]

Location: Libera.chat, #monero-community | Matrix

Instructions for joining the monero.social Matrix server.

Time
15:00 UTC Check your timezone

Moderator: plowsof

Please reach out in advance of the meeting if you would like to propose an agenda item.

Proposed Meeting Items:

1. Introduction
2. Greetings
3. Community highlights
   News: Monero Observer - Revuo Monero - The Monero Standard - Monero Moon

• Bootstrappable Builds - tobtoht
• Kukoin to require KYC after 15th July
• SideShift.ai has dropped support for Monero a pull request to replace sideshift with majesticbank feedback

4. CCS updates
   b. recanman bitejo rewrite and expansion proposal
   c. Glitter Finance Cross-Chain Privacy Infrastructure with Monero Close / wait for rebuttal
   d. Serving Defcon 31 (2023) Negative feedback / issues with costs
   e. XMR Business Wallet Development

Vosto Emisio - Basic Core Concept #1 Tail Emission VO Script.pdf

5. Workgroup reports
   a. Dev workgroup
   b. Localization workgroup
   c. Outreach workgroup
   d. Events workgroup - MoneroKon 2023
   e. Website workgroup
   f. Policy workgroup Monero Policy Working Group Meeting: Tuesday 11th July @ 16:00 UTC  #858
   g. Research workgroup
   h. Seraphis Migration workgroup
6. Open ideas time
7. Confirm next meeting date/time

Previous meeting including logs

Meeting logs will be posted here afterwards.

[plowsof]

Monero and cryptocurrencies as the most powerful lliberalizing tool of global opportunism - Pavol Luptak
Full Chain Membership Proofs - Luke Parker
tbd - midipoet
Psuedonymity is not enough: Why Monero is 'missing out' on decentralised identity - Ben Biedermann
On the anonymity of peer-to-peer network anonymity schemes used by cryptocurrencies - Piyush Kumar Sharma
SPATS: User-Defined confidential assets and tokens - Aaron Feickert
An overview of security, spam, scaling and fee markets in Monero and Bitcoin like cryptocurrencies - Francisco Cabanas
MPROVE+: Privacy enhancing proof of reserves protocol for Monero - Suyash Bagad
A formal evaluation of privacy in Monero - Francois-Xavier Wicht
The Economics of privacy - Martin Gundinger
A stroll in the Monero garden: exploring failure, pressure, introverts, crap production, and free will through the lens of privacy - anhdres
ETH-XMR Atomic Swaps - Elizabeth (Noot)
PAYMO: Verifiable timed linkable ring signatures for scalable payments for Moneros - Prof. Dr. Dominique Schroeder
Monerujo: Quo Vadis? - m2049r
Regulating Monero: A libertarian, stategic analysis - Andrea
Lelantus Spark & Seraphis state of the art and future improvements - Aram Jivanyan
Tariscript - Non-interative protocols for Mimblewimble - Cayle Sharrock
Anonymous Credentials with threshold issuance - Alfredo Rial
Analysing monero merchants' traffic using simple chain analysis - Juraj Bednar
Anonymous set proofs for infinite ring size - Amir Taaki
Light wallets with stronger privacy - J-Berman
Seamless escrowed marketplace - Koe

[plowsof]

Logs

15:00:06 <plowsof11> meeting time https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/857

15:00:07 <plowsof11> 2. Greetings

15:00:13 <recanman[m]> Hello.

15:00:17 <plowsof11> hello everyone

15:00:42 <msvb-lab> Hello.

15:01:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Greetings

15:01:34 <Lovera[m]> Hi everyone

15:02:51 <plowsof11> lets talk about some recent events :) alot of Monerokon presentations have already been
uploaded (raw/unedited) thanks to ajs_ here : https://www.youtube.com/@MoneroCommunityWorkgroup , i have also
titled / linked to a few (not all) in this github comment: https://github.com/monero-
project/meta/issues/857#issuecomment-1620790110 (please forgive the youtube links)

15:03:51 <hinto[m]> hello

15:03:55 <plowsof11> the recent "sideshift dropping xmr" news - in-app swaps are still working inside
cakewallet/monerujo but its "iffy"

15:03:57 <recanman[m]> Having the MoneroKon talks available is really convenient for me, I still think that a
summary should be included in the title.

15:04:44 <plowsof11> the events team will discuss the.. video editing.. titles.. and what not later today 👍️
any feedback for them if you want to drop it here much appreciated thanks

15:04:50 <Lovera[m]> plowsof11: Wow this is great!! Very nice Plowsof!!

15:05:09 <MajesticBank> not sure sideshift works in monerujo, does it ? since it's xmr -> other coins

15:05:53 <plowsof11> anhdres:

15:05:53 <plowsof11> >for the time being, sideshift service in the app seems to be working, but it's a hit or
miss. we'll still working on a replacement asap

15:06:10 <plowsof11> its basically 'over' , hello majesticbank

15:06:25 <msvb-lab> Whenever it's a good time to focus on MoneroKon, let me know so that I can announce the
dates for MoneroKon 2024 please.

15:07:05 <plowsof11> seems like a community highlight, go ahead msvb-lab!

15:07:17 <msvb-lab> Thanks plowsof11.

15:07:40 <msvb-lab> The Monero Konferenco 2024 will take place in Prague, at La Fabrika and Paralelni Polis on
7-9 June 2024.

15:07:54 <msvb-lab> That is the last weekend after the Prague Blockchain Week event.

15:08:11 <msvb-lab> We have three days at the same venue that we rented this year for 2023.

15:08:11 <blankpage[m]> Hello sorry I'm late

15:08:24 <msvb-lab> So welcome to make your plans early, thanks dankon.

15:08:50 <plowsof11> thanks for the heads up!

15:08:53 <Lovera[m]> MajesticBank: Anhdres has commented in the Monero group in Spanish that apparently they
have removed it from their official website but it still works in the app. They have tested it and it gives
error. I have not tried it today

15:08:56 <msvb-lab> You're welcome.

15:09:44 <MajesticBank> I've noticed tho monerujo wasn't listed on their site so far, or just removed also

15:09:57 <MajesticBank> while there are some other wallets listed on sideshift website

15:10:46 <plowsof11> also reg the side shift issue: [a pull request to replace sideshift with majesticbank
feedback](https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2183#pullrequestreview-1518711403)

15:10:46 <plowsof11>  which needs input from the community, "MB to be listed as a swapper on getmonero"

15:12:51 <plowsof11> drop feedback in the issue / here , wherever - i predict there will be alot of discussion
- perhaps out-sourcing the problem and listing kycnot.me instead could be an option (maintaining the list of
swappers is annoying)

15:13:43 <plowsof11> [Kukoin to require KYC after 15th
July](https://www.coindesk.com/business/2023/06/28/crypto-exchange-kucoin-to-introduce-mandatory-id-checks-
next-month/)

15:14:04 <Lovera[m]> This discussion could be left to the end xD if we start we don't finish.

15:14:11 <Lovera[m]> 😀

15:14:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof11: > <@plowsof:matrix.org> also reg the side shift issue: [a pull request to
replace sideshift with majesticbank feedback](https://github.com/monero-project/monero-
site/pull/2183#pullrequestreview-1518711403)

15:14:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> >  which needs input from the community, "MB to be listed as a swapper on getmonero"

15:14:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> no

15:15:19 <plowsof11> the monero policy / panel presentation at monerokon was a good watch - the monero policy
team are starting up their meetings again.  next meeting on the 11th July https://github.com/monero-
project/meta/issues/858

15:15:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> Intercambio was redirecting to the UN.

15:15:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> no explanation, no listing

15:16:02 <plowsof11> shout out to tobtoht for this  [Bootstrappable Builds](https://github.com/monero-
project/monero/pull/8929) pull request

15:17:21 <MajesticBank> intercambio was thing with vps provider, orangefren can explain better, it was fixed
within few hours

15:17:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> Vps provider redirected to UN? Lol

15:17:52 <recanman[m]> What does that mean that it redirects to the UN?

15:17:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ok. Ill wait for orangefren

15:18:02 <recanman[m]> Redirects to un.org?

15:18:04 <recanman[m]> s/?/?!/

15:18:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> It means it sent you tonthe United Nations website

15:18:20 <recanman[m]> That is quite odd

15:18:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> Very secure place to send your crypto /s

15:19:25 <plowsof11> anything else we have missed 🤔 https://ccs.getmonero.org/funding-required/ has received
some large donations recently ❤️

15:19:30 <blankpage[m]> Wow! Bootstrappable builds is HUGE and I was not aware of this. Thanks for the heads
up

15:19:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> <plowsof11> "[Kukoin to require KYC after..." <- This ia big news

15:19:49 <recanman[m]> plowsof11: Wow, a large difference from last week.

15:19:57 <Lovera[m]> plowsof11: Niceee

15:20:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: And should not be glossed over

15:20:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> Kucoin allowed us citizens to buy monero. They dont support usa, but they dont kyc. Kyc
means no more usa.

15:20:46 <Lovera[m]> recanman[m]: by any chance it has not been from the GF? xD

15:20:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> If you havent already, get your crypto off. And if they still let you, so empty their
reserves

15:20:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Go* empty

15:21:07 <recanman[m]> Lovera[m]: Not sure, could be.

15:21:16 <plowsof11> Lovera: no , not that im aware (bF drops a comment on the proposals after a GF donation)

15:21:54 <plowsof11> #monero-policy:monero.social is where the next policy meeting will be taking place

15:22:06 <recanman[m]> What is the Monero Policy Workgroup?

15:22:26 <recanman[m]> s/Workgroup/Working Group/

15:22:33 <blankpage[m]> For those who don't know, bootstrap builds means that reproducible builds cannot be
disrupted by a malicious OS or compiler

15:22:54 <plowsof11> some of them are in the panel here during this presentation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LQsqMYVn2M

15:22:56 <MajesticBank> reproducible builds are very important

15:23:21 <MajesticBank> specially for mobile wallets, its possible trough fdroid

15:23:32 <MajesticBank> good work from tobtoht

15:23:52 <plowsof11> midipoet gives a good introduction to what the monero policy group is all about in that
presentation

15:24:01 <recanman[m]> Thank you.

15:24:14 <plowsof11> now, anything else? i think weve had a good overview

15:24:29 <recanman[m]> I don't think so.

15:24:50 <plowsof11> 4. [CCS updates](https://ccs.getmonero.org/)

15:25:04 <plowsof11>   b. [recanman bitejo rewrite and expansion proposal](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-
project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/395)

15:25:24 <recanman[m]> Can I give a +1 for my own CCS?

15:26:25 <plowsof11> your presence alone during the meeting is a +

15:26:38 <recanman[m]> I was making a joke, but thank you.

15:26:44 <recanman[m]> * thank you very much.

15:27:56 <plowsof11> but uhm yeah, there has been alot of talk / changes suggested / ive even left a comment
recently about the issue of "marketplaces" being funded by the ccs (historically, anything marketplace related
was not put forward)

15:28:28 <recanman[m]> I want to emphasize that the marketplace is one of the four planned 'services'.

15:28:49 <recanman[m]> I do agree with plowsof's points about the marketplace.

15:28:57 <recanman[m]> * Nevertheless, I do

15:30:02 <plowsof11> noted that openbazaar received 9million in investments and still failed

15:30:34 <plowsof11> granted, market place is as you say, one of the planned services

15:30:46 <nioc> as has been noted it is not the existence of markets but the bootstrapping of them that is the
issue

15:31:19 <recanman[m]> I will promote it on my weekly publication, *[The Monero
Standard](https://localmonero.co/the-monero-standard)*

15:31:21 <nioc> or any of the other services that are being worked on which already exist

15:31:32 <MajesticBank> there is couple of similar markets, I don't understand why we don't have one common
project, where everyone can work on

15:31:36 <plowsof11> logistically with this being your first CCS, a 6 month endeavour is a huge commitment for
not only yourself but the community

15:32:01 <nioc> 3 month is the usual maximum time

15:32:24 <recanman[m]> Well, I am not employed, so I have a lot of freetime.

15:32:43 <recanman[m]> Most of my freetime goes towards a hobby project.

15:32:55 <Lovera[m]> I remember erccisione scolding me on my first CCS for putting 6 months instead of 3.
Newbies are only allowed 3 months xD

15:33:13 <recanman[m]> I don't think I'll be able to complete the CCS in three months/

15:33:16 <recanman[m]> s///./

15:33:21 <recanman[m]>  * I don't think I'll be able to complete the CCS proposal in three months.

15:34:15 <plowsof11> its not a technical problem that needs to be solved 'now' rather ... get people using the
site, and show me the complaints about it "sucking" from numerous users and show some cool things that where
done via bitejo marketplace to generate hype in 'making it great'

15:35:36 <Lovera[m]> recanman[m]: What can be achieved in 3 months?

15:36:00 <recanman[m]> In three months, I can finish one or two services.

15:36:40 <plowsof11> as the proposal is written currently, im voting close but its worth giving more time to
see if it changes in 2~ weeks

15:37:11 <plowsof11> leave it open for more discussion

15:37:43 <blankpage[m]> I am neutral on this proposal. I agree that bootstrapping (marketing, good
administration) is much much more important, but I'm not against donors funding this development work if they
want to.

15:37:52 <spirobel[m]> you should read the book  The cold start problem. can be found on libgen

15:38:14 <plowsof11> the propsal before my eyes right now: close

15:38:41 <Lovera[m]> I am really interested, but as MB mentions, there are other similar services. If we could
just put it all together in one development and make the most of it, it would be great.

15:38:52 <recanman[m]> That is the plan.

15:39:56 <plowsof11> needs more discussion / leave open is the majority ? (remember that core will probably
not want a marketplace on the ccs, but i have not asked)

15:40:16 <plowsof11> shall we move on?

15:40:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sorry guys

15:40:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> I had a comment on that

15:41:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> 45xmr and drop jobs part

15:41:31 <recanman[m]> Dropping jobs permanently?

15:41:31 <Lovera[m]> To be super honest right now I'm thinking about closing.

15:41:31 <Lovera[m]> I know the proposal has been modified quite a bit and it's interesting, but I still think
something doesn't add up. Maybe the amount?

15:41:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> So basically rewrite and maintain backend fir 2 yrs

15:41:46 <recanman[m]> Is it too much, or too little?

15:42:29 <plowsof11> with 20 mins left and 3 ideas to discuss, we must leave it open until next meeting as
discussion / changes is ongoing

15:42:29 <Lovera[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Oh, this could be intresting

15:42:46 <MajesticBank> go next

15:42:48 <Lovera[m]> plowsof11: yep

15:42:52 <plowsof11>   c. [Glitter Finance Cross-Chain Privacy Infrastructure with
Monero](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/396) Close / wait for
rebuttal

15:42:56 <plowsof11> close

15:42:59 <recanman[m]> close

15:43:05 <Lovera[m]> close

15:43:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> close

15:43:20 <anhdres[m]> <MajesticBank> "not sure sideshift works in..." <- I've also got errors and then one
minute later it works. Pretty erratic. We were working towards saying goodbye to sideshift anyway.

15:43:38 <blankpage[m]> Close with haste

15:43:41 <hinto[m]> close

15:44:00 <plowsof11> nioc and Cat proxy vote: close

15:44:16 <Lovera[m]> 100% close

15:44:27 <plowsof11> closing glitter , moving on

15:44:36 <plowsof11>   d. [Serving Defcon 31 (2023)](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-
proposals/-/merge_requests/397)    Negative feedback / issues with costs

15:44:43 <recanman[m]> close

15:44:46 <MajesticBank> anhdres[m]: It's sad they hadn't gave you some time before doing such thing, comments
in their group is also weird "liquidity issue"

15:45:04 <recanman[m]> recanman[m]: I don't feel that 20k for badges is a good idea

15:45:12 <Lovera[m]> 20000 USD for badges for me = close... Sorry

15:45:25 <MajesticBank> I think 20k is too much, because impact is low

15:45:34 <plowsof11> duplicate of serve defcon 30 which was also sadly unsuccessful, i vote also close

15:45:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Burn it with fire

15:46:36 <plowsof11> closing serve defcon 31, moving on

15:46:47 <plowsof11>   e. [XMR Business Wallet Development](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-
proposals/-/merge_requests/398)

15:47:02 <recanman[m]> Not sure about this one

15:47:47 <Lovera[m]> plowsof11: Ya tenemos RINO

15:47:56 <plowsof11> its a close from me

15:47:56 <Lovera[m]> Oops sorry, we already have rhino

15:47:57 <MajesticBank> a lot of details missing on this one

15:48:08 <Lovera[m]> s/rhino/Rino/

15:48:35 <Lovera[m]> close

15:48:56 <recanman[m]> close

15:48:59 <plowsof11> considering sideshift is mentioned in the proposal ... and USDC is it really a tough one

15:49:14 <Lovera[m]> plowsof11: Burn it with fire

15:49:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> no

15:49:25 <nioc> makes little sense when the merchant that he says inspired him to do this already has a method
of accepting monero, btcpay server

15:49:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Burn it with napalm

15:49:40 <MajesticBank> it doesn't even say the language of the wallet, platform

15:49:41 <blankpage[m]> The motivation is good but the specific plans are questionable

15:50:06 <plowsof11> indeed nioc, monerokon uses btcpay , AND rino for their perspective advantages

15:50:12 <plowsof11> nowpayments also has a ... crypto to fiat service

15:50:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Should open a ccs for that subscription wallet instead

15:50:53 <recanman[m]> The subscription wallet is nice, I looked at it around a month ago. There isn't too
much to change though, I'm not sure a CCS would be relevant.

15:51:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> You can ccs for past work.. i think..

15:51:47 <plowsof11> ccs for past work is not prefferred, but it has happened

15:52:11 <plowsof11> there has been a "they use alot of chatgpt" and are "hobbyist/self taught" python devs

15:52:23 <plowsof11> accusation for that subscription wallet , which could effect them

15:52:25 <recanman[m]> What is wrong with self-taught?

15:52:49 <plowsof11> early on in their journey / green

15:52:52 <recanman[m]> I think it's a pretty good show of determination. I may have a bias since I am self-
taught.

15:52:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> That they learned by copy paste from chatgpt

15:52:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Notice the "and"

15:53:04 <recanman[m]> Oh, oops

15:53:16 <recanman[m]> > Notice the "and"

15:53:16 <recanman[m]> Thank you

15:53:19 <recanman[m]> s///

15:53:25 <recanman[m]>  * > Notice the "and"

15:53:25 <recanman[m]> Thank you

15:53:25 <plowsof11> would you as a business, trust them?

15:53:45 <plowsof11> or a customer, to protect your hot wallet keys

15:53:55 <plowsof11> and not send an incorrect amount if soemthing wrong happens

15:54:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Self taught could be "signed up for online courses". But i think plowsof isnreferring to
quality of code

15:54:43 <plowsof11> yes. koe is self taught for c++

15:54:44 <recanman[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: I don't agree with that. I don't want to deviate the discussion, but self-
taught usually means tinkering until you form a strong basis of concepts, then learning through documentation.

15:55:08 <recanman[m]> I've never signed up for a computer science course and I am self-taught. Maybe that is
irrelevant.

15:55:09 <plowsof11> early on in their journey* if i can add that then

15:55:46 <recanman[m]> In that sense, maybe a CCS would be a good idea; if it is done properly, then I am all
for it.

15:56:17 <plowsof11> closing xmr business wallet

15:56:34 <plowsof11> there was no chance for msvb-lab to comment on their ccs which we voted to close

15:56:39 <recanman[m]> Maybe this is too big of an idea, but why not implement recurring payments in the
monero-wallet-gui?

15:56:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof11: Close it

15:56:48 <plowsof11> if they wish to, please do

15:56:51 <recanman[m]> Maybe it has never come up or has been denied, I would like to know.

15:56:58 <msvb-lab> No problem, I'll remove Monero. We can move on.

15:57:58 <plowsof11> AOB

15:58:05 <plowsof11> [Vosto Emisio - Basic Core Concept #1 Tail Emission VO
Script.pdf](https://github.com/monero-
project/meta/files/11973878/Vosto.Emisio.-.Basic.Core.Concept.1.Tail.Emission.VO.Script.1.pdf)

15:58:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> Thanks

15:58:41 <recanman[m]> > Maybe this is too big of an idea, but why not implement recurring payments in the
monero-wallet-gui?

15:58:41 <recanman[m]> Any responses to this?

15:59:00 <plowsof11> they have an idea for the video. similar to tx streeet - there will be a line outside 2
buildings (to get in) - im describing the concept terribly here

15:59:59 <spirobel[m]> recanman[m]: why not use a credit card?

15:59:59 <recanman[m]> Subscriptions

15:59:59 <spirobel[m]> maybe this would make sense as a payroll system. or payables system

15:59:59 <spirobel[m]> but susbcriptions has the wrong connotation

16:00:00 <recanman[m]> Is what I mean

16:00:07 <plowsof11> to represent the fee market* when it was explained to me correctly it sounded good 😅

16:00:14 <recanman[m]> Applies to both payrolls and subscriptions I would say.

16:00:35 <plowsof11> subscirptions is a marketing word, there is no such thing - you turn your wallet on and
it auto sends a payment

16:00:44 <plowsof11> if you dont turn your wallet on then no payments are made

16:01:03 <recanman[m]> Yes, you leave the wallet open. Monero subscriptions wallet requires it to be open.

16:01:11 <vostoemisio[m]> plowsof11: I'm on phone so I rather not describe it all, but all please glance
through the script and thumbs up or down

16:01:11 <plowsof11> i cant subscribe to anything unless my hot keys are in some custodial service

16:02:23 <plowsof11> script is a +1 from me

16:02:38 <recanman[m]> Recurring payments are defined to an address, and the wallet will try every set amount
of time to make a payment to the address. Say it is closed and then opened, if the time has passed, it will
send it.

16:02:41 <recanman[m]> vostoemisio[m]: +1

16:03:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> havent read it yet. Thanks

16:04:19 <plowsof11> subscribe in the sense of how my fiat payments are handled , automated without any input
from myself - for this to happen on monero - hot keys have to be on 'an internet connected device / running
24/7' this is the "custodial service" i mention , am i wrong?

16:04:24 <spirobel[m]> plowsof11: I think the only way subscriptions in monero make sense is a long payment
cycle (months or years) and then revoke access to the respective resource when the subscription expires. I
built a tool for that ... https://monerochan.cash/tools

16:05:28 <spirobel[m]> shorter payment cycles like on the order of days or weeks are too cumbersome for
consumers ... that would be more appropriately called payables or payroll

16:05:51 <recanman[m]> plowsof11: You are not wrong, but doesn't have to be 24/7.

16:05:59 <recanman[m]> spirobel[m]: This is what I was thinking of.

16:06:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Cronjob

16:06:33 <recanman[m]> * thinking of, but integrated in the monero-wallet-gui., * . It seems like a farfetched
idea.

16:06:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> Loloo

16:06:45 <recanman[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Lol

16:07:00 <plowsof11> cron should start a ccs

16:07:03 <recanman[m]> Point of monero-wallet-gui is for people who don't know what a cronjob is, right?

16:07:24 <TrasherDK[m]> <naphtha[m]> "is that usdt or actual usd?" <- Using Kraken API to list your balance,
it will show as USDT 😬

16:07:26 <recanman[m]> Rather for simplicity, but also for people who are not necessarily 'technical' in a
sense.

16:10:42 <msvb-lab> Have a good day everyone. Dankon everyone for the meeting and plowsof11 for the good
moderation.

16:10:48 <plowsof11> i think we can end it there, thank you for all attending. closing all but recanmans

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