Not much in the way of action items, but one thing to consider is Pooja's vision for the future of the cat herders. Pooja is pushing for more cat herder involvement, and expanding the channels of community outreach. The goal is to gain more action, production, and make a meaningful impact in the Ethereum community.
Pooja - welcome to the cat herders meeting 43 i'm sharing the agenda in chat here so the first item on agenda is zinken test net launch uh the test network was launched yesterday at 8 00 a.m est time and that was considered to be a close to smooth launch uh as expected it did not show any issues uh that were shown in its padina test net last time while the editors were able to propose an epoch were getting finalized the clients worked fine it is expected that there could be at least one more testnet or the dress rehearsal before the main net launch of f2 phase zero
Video | 1:10
Pooja - the next item is five nine eip1559 fee market change uh so we had this meeting last week i guess yeah on thursday let me just pull up.. so according to the clients update provided in the meeting the hyperledger Besu would stand up a pr test net uh with some changes uh like they have accepted the uh wrapped transaction pr submitted by um micah forget vulcanized team is trying to debug a consensus issue that they were having on the uh f mirror test net poi test net for nether mind eip1559 is syncing and the syncing with the test network and they will continue to work with besu geth and nether mind team together to adding a nether mind validator soon there were some reports shared by banabei on research side and the cat herders they also did the community outreach report they published it last week with tim biker william schwab alita more and i reached out to different projects in the ecosystem where projects and dap developers were excited to see this proposal the proposal eip15599 to be deployed on the main net as early as possible the miners community expressed their dissatisfaction and the main benefit that was highlighted by the projects was the predictability of gas prices that is uh provided by this proposal the fear with this proposal of being contentious was also highlighted due to the proposed concept of base fee burning and minus tip distribution uh that is going to change the current dynamics of a fee distribution for the miners.
William - do we want to continue the outreach project even now that the article's written like there were even sort of like entire categories of stakeholders who were not reached so in the interest of just having the information even if it doesn't necessarily lead to a blog post are we interested in sort of continuing to comes effort or is this going to be the end of it
Pooja - uh no i i assume that there is going to be a wave two of the outreach efforts this time we are trying to target more on wallets and exchanges because they were low participation last time and we would also try to reach out to the service providers because they would be the projects where the changes are expected they are providers they need to do some changes on their end so my assumption would be like we would be doing a wave two of that however if people are interested..
William - what do you mean by a service provider
Pooja - uh like you know uh like um node providers many of the projects are not running their own node
William - do you mean like geth for instance
Pooja - uh maybe alchemy
William - oh okay no okay i got you we mean now. practically speaking does that mean i should be reaching out to groups though like i mean i have access to the spreadsheet i could be continuing to try and get data and arrange meetings should i should i continue doing that [yeah] okay
Ethereum - there is another mainnet readiness checklist that was shared for eip1559 proposal um that is available in the ethereum pm github and yeah and from ours like from cat herder side we have to continue the wave 2 for reaching out projects and service providers
Video | 5:30
Pooja - the next item is eipip meeting update in the last eipip meeting we discussed about network upgrade process flow i shared some concern with eip statuses not getting changed even at the time of it being deployed on the main net and the general sentiment was it will be good to have it updated for that the agreement was to have a twitter handle from which the change of the EIP statuses can be shared with the community thanks to light client he secured a handle at eip info and i have shared the credentials with james because he mentioned that he would be interested to you know tweet about that and handle it but if any cat header also wants to get involved uh feel free to get in touch with james the new agenda for the eip ip meeting is up and uh feel free to add more discussion point i don't see edson here i think there was something that cat heard us were involved to and i think he was leading for that about the onboarding of eip editors it will be helpful to you know set expectations for editors and get more people involved so that we can iron out the process of the new process of eip standardization and and like look into more proposals and get it faster because now we have only one active editor that is looking into it and one of the agenda item for next meeting is from his side only any comment questions on this part
Brent - sounds good
William - i mean yeah it sounds like a great idea but i guess we need some details it's hard to comment on just like uh just as a as an idea
Pooja - right i mean like i see that cat headers are getting engaged more in the eipip meeting like in more into the process part so if anybody would have any suggestion on in the improvement park or something that could help improve the current process would be highly encouraged and that's why like we have started creating agenda way in advance so that people can go and add their comments like what they would like to discuss
William - increasing eip editing seems like a great idea i mean the more i become aware of sort of the cue of vips the more i become aware that there's a lot that seem to have just been sitting since like 2018 and there's not necessarily a reason why they haven't moved forward so just having people who can sort of like you know uh shake the tree a bit and like you know maybe get things moving or get the sort of small editing changes that sometimes things need help out people aren't necessarily english's native language etc etc would probably make the process significantly more efficient or even just calling attention to eips that need attention given to them um so i mean hearing that as an initiative makes a lot of sense um i can't say that i'm really up for spearheading it right now and it sounds like edson from what you mentioned may be taking initiative on a project like that it would be very interesting to see where it goes i mean to some degree it could be that the process is fine just that it hasn't scaled very well with the manpower that it has right now and it'd be interesting to see if perhaps giving the like you know scaling the amount of people working on it might be enough just to make it a much more efficient process
Pooja - right and now with the new bot uh like uh we have like in process of getting a pr close if it is stagnant for a while and i myself have seen some of the proposals getting close because they weren't able to cut proper attention from the editors so it would be better to you know close a proposal after making a decision on certain proposal not just because it's not getting editor's attention so yeah that's another goal of having this initiative
Video | 9:57
Pooja - moving on the next item is a breakout room update so we have this breakout room meeting for last monday previous week it seems it was for the rich transaction type that would be considered for you know eip 1559 it seems like the biggest desire to go with that was to avoid memorable complexity of introducing batch transaction that was uh uh proposed by litecoin and uh there wasn't any consensus on the transaction time that could be introduced in berlin so until the next upgrade or until there isn't any agreement on the best mechanism lightclient would be working uh into looking the batch transaction complexity and understanding the complexity of mempool there is no set date for the next meeting it would be scheduled based on the request received in the breakout room channel in ether R&D discord server
Video | 11:15
Pooja - the next item is peep and eip so we shared the last recording with kelly olsen for eip2565 repricing of eip 198 the monarchy xp precompiled it was good to know about a proposal which is already being considered for berlin upgrade the next meeting is scheduled for eip2718 type transaction envelope with micah and that is scheduled in early november so with the help of this series uh we are trying to socialize the ethereum proposal and at present i'm not aware of any other forum where such discussion happens so it's an opportunity for community to learn about the core proposals and for the developer community to also share their questions if they have anything on the erc or any or the standard track proposal it would be interesting to hear thoughts and suggestion on eips to be considered for this series
William - i had the eip i ran into like yesterday actually so i just reached out to the author to see if he'd uh if he'd respond i'd have to get the number again it might be 23.80 no it wasn't that far 1837 maybe refungible tokens sort of like an idea for splitting nfts and trc20 coins, um wait a second where are we 1634. sorry so i reached out to him i'll see if i'll see if he responds
Brent - cool yeah i'd like to attend that next meeting next november 8th -- 3rd right
Pooja - yeah um yeah i mean like thanks to you william and alita for supporting this series and good to hear that brent would also like to join that for people who are listening this uh meeting on youtube if you have any suggestion for what eip should be should we contact or how to reach to the authors please uh leave a comment in comment in the comment section below or you can always join our ech discord mention that proposal and we will be happy to include that in uh next episode
Video | 13:40
Pooja - The next is the emergency communication group so we have william william if you may have any update on that or..
William - so the truth is um i really need hudson here for that um the one thing that i could say is that we've got there have been two documents that we've written internally so far uh about protocols we got them to a point where we're happy trying to start to share them a bit and to get feedback from the community hudson took point on point on that and i don't know where it's holding right now so i'd sort of need him to figure out where that next step is but that is the phase that we're in right now he wanted to sort of cycle them a bit like pick and choose not just opening out opening them up to everybody but sort of spot talking to the people in the in the ecosystem that he thought would have the most valuable feedback about it before we try and do something bigger with it and that's where we are
Pooja - yeah i mean i would like to apologize from his side like he mentioned that he ran into some personal uh errand and would be unavailable for next few days or at least he would be able to handle that so maybe by next meeting we should expect him to provide further update on that
William - i'll try and be in touch with him over the next two weeks also just that way we have a bit of redundancy in case one of us messes up the other one should know what's going on yeah
Video | 15:29
Pooja - sure, the next item is cat head is funding moloch DAO and esp um i do not have updates on moloch DAO talk part because again we have to check with him on with hudson on that but i heard from some of the esp people and they are happy with the work that we are doing uh as cat herders that we are taking care of uh supporting the network upgrade process and the the newsletter that we publish uh the cad headers update that we published are really appreciated so i mean i have added it as a specific agenda topic for today's meeting uh that is the next one
Video | 16:05
Pooja - ethereum cathode is update in email newsletter version do we have any thought on that
William - the goal is just to I mean is there's like the goals just engagement trying to increase engagement
Pooja - yes i mean generally even if people do not read it immediately when it is published if that is there in the inbox they get the notification of that sometimes later they pull it out and start reading it and because our cat holders update are mostly covering the minute related information what is going on in ethereum one chain and ethereum two chain and and uh you know proposals around that so it's helpful for people for keeping track of a network upgrade
William - do we know what the metrics are like how many people are reading or like i mean what the level of engagement with it as is
Pooja - yeah i think i should have let me just pull out that i mean it's it's a good b um i can give me a minute i'll just take it out for..
William - sure while you're doing that maybe i'll just say like it seems to me that this is sort of a question of migration as in right now everything's published on medium this would mean i take it sort of my greeting from using medium as the platform something like subset
Pooja - um not really i don't know maybe i came across uh maybe this is a new feature of medium or what i may have to explore more on that but i think medium also provide this uh facility of you know whatever you are publishing here get it sent through a newsletter or something i may have to look into that or if not then maybe
William - researching researching options might be the first step there then just seeing what that would mean i mean sub stack in the crypto space is doing pretty well like a lot of things are on sub stack um bank lists on sub stack that find us on sub stack um so it definitely it definitely seems steph platform this ecosystem but yeah just seeing what the options are and what the pros and cons of the different platforms might be might be a good first t#
Pooja - right i mean earlier we were also looking for an email you know the domain specific email now that we have secured it i think that would be a good starting point to think about it and then maybe in next few meetings we can flesh it out and decide how we would want to go ahead
Alita - um are we asking about the the email me letter at the current moment right okay um i feel like people want like um i don't know sorry i i had like an idea of maybe like read it out loud or something because i feel like people might digest it better um if you just had like you read it on youtube or something versus um like sending them an email that they probably think is spam uh but i don't know
William - not mutually exclusive actually that is an interesting idea just having like you know the ethereum cat herders weekly 5 pm news uh or something like that actually as as funny as it sounds i think you're right i actually i i do think you're right
Pooja - so generally when we publish this cat herders update i tend to share it in reddit linkedin twitter and everywhere else so somebody reading it on you know youtube or something yeah that would be interesting but again that would be something a good amount of work would be needed for that and we might deal with somebody i'm gonna have a really hard time not imitating news anchors if i do it it's just gonna be like too hard for me to not do that it's like such an easy like low shot
Alita - i think that there are worse things though to be fair
William - possible don't know if it's good for engagement but i guess there's only one way to find out
Pooja - yeah and also like right now i'm the only one who is writing these newsletter i mean these chat editors update earlier a few more people joined and they were doing that and we had this feedback from the uh foundation uh that it would be good to engage more people like you know the write-up coming up from different people will give an impression that everyone is like you know equally participating so it would be good for the group as a whole so if anybody is interested
William - i could probably contribute i mean the basic the newsletters in general basically are just a recap of the subjects that we discuss in the calls also just sort of like the proof of work if you'll forgive a pun of what we've done over the last two weeks so i mean if it's broken into if it's broken down into different subjects like for instance like if there's going to be a paragraph on emergency comms or something like that i i could contribute writing to that that's not a major investment on my part i think the easiest thing for me would be if when you're i don't know exactly what your method is for writing but if it's broken into categories first even before you start writing it and you can give me like a look at the categories it should be easy for me to see if there's something there that i can easily pick because i sort of know what's going on with it and maybe put in a paragraph or two on it
Pooja - yeah i mean that is generally the idea and like personally what i do is like i focus on every meetings that we have here every public meeting ethereum one meeting ethereum two meeting and all sort of meetings where cat headers are engaged i tried to pick up those uh put highlights over there share their notes that is done by the cat herders itself and there is one section about community um like whatever is going on in other section uh for one particular section so that is there i'm going to share this uh this week's update after this meeting and that is consistent from past three four updates so probably that would give you a better idea
William - i've read and i have read the newsletters this is more of a question of your method like it could be something that would really help you with engagement would be if and i don't know if this is the way you do it i'm just going to pull an example from myself usually when i'm doing the notes for say core devs so the first thing i do is i look at the issues and i already make a framework of exactly what's going to happen in the call and then i sort of fill in each part of the call from the call um if you d if you do a similar thing for the newsletter as in you have a basic idea of what the different like you know major subjects are and then maybe the minor subjects um before you actually write in like paragraphs for that um you might want to make a discord channel on the cat herders discord and before you actually start like writing the actual content when you just sort of have the skeleton of the article if you can just post that in the channel and say does anybody want to cover any of these particular stories so to speak then that might help people be able to engage more easily you would sort of like be taking like an editor-in-chief position with it but it could be the editor-in-chief is still going to be better than being the editor-in-chief and the writer and the distributor and everything else too like it could be you can pull in some engagement that way
Pooja - that that sounds like a very interesting idea and the good part is we already have this channel for medium update in the communication section of the cat herders discord uh probably would want to start utilizing it better and the suggestion on doing that on individual part is also good but when i would like to see more people getting engaged and things going out by their name that would be even you know i mean that that's..
William - do you mean like a separate document even or you mean inside the like..
Pooja - like we do it for notes like we do it for notes right every time somebody takes turn right
William - oh you're not okay i i thought that what you meant was that in each update you should have different parts of the update written by different people which personally incidentally in my humble opinion sounds like a very good idea actually
Pooja - yeah even that is very interesting idea i'm open to that as well if that helps yes why not we want people to just be to get engaged and you know whatever they have good to share with get it out by in any form it doesn't matter that we have to follow a traditional path that somebody is doing it we can always go that route as well
Alita - so i think maybe um sorry to sort of interject here but did did we already do the eip 1559 sorry i was late
Pooja - yes uh like uh i provided an update but uh now that you have joined if you would have something to add i don't know because you did not hear about it here when we were discussing about it so i just provided the update the highlights on what was discussed in the previous meeting and how we are doing on the outreach front and we decided that cat headers will continue to reach projects so yeah please feel free to add
Alita - okay uh yeah generally speaking it was hold on i need to go back and look at like my notes as well because it's i'm kind of rusty they basically we're talking about numerically has been changed they're talking about like um sorry can we just come back to this at the end i'm gonna review the notes sorry
Pooja - yeah that's all right uh uh yeah i was just trying to mention here let's finish up this uh about the newsletter thing and then we'll come back to the 1559 if that makes sense
Alita - yeah [big oof]
Pooja - coming back to the newsletter i think the idea is really interesting william and we should try to work on that we have this communication channel i believe all the members should have access to it and member and contributors should have access to that and yes we can start posting it and maybe plan out for the next meeting onwards for today i'm going to share the update right after this meeting
Video | 28:10
Pooja - so yeah we have reached to the almost the last item of the agenda it's about the reviewing of issues and peers do we have any open issues there i see a few funding issues yeah there are two and um if you guys don't mind waiting for a few more days and we can bundle it together because i know couple of more coming up from your end like for a little would be doing it for today's meeting and william you would be doing it for the coder meeting so that we can put two of those together and pay out if that works [yep] and and on the issue side uh yeah there was one thing or um like it has already been closed okay so i do not have any further update uh there is one item there is one issue 104 update folkman and publish code properly so if i understand correct uh martin has started this folkman dot at devops.io and that is up and running again so it would be a good time but i left it open for others others to review it and if this is fine we can go ahead and close this issue at least one will be down today and for some of them i see with hudson it is we'll wait for him to respond on that so yeah Alita now we are done with the items listed so if you can if you'd like to go ahead and
Alita - sure so again sorry i'm i actually just woke up like 15 minutes ago so i hope you'll have some patience with me i'm very much so um rough at the current moment, essentially most of the major like geth, nether mind um geth and nether mind are about implemented with the 1559 and then as i recall and those were the only two that were actually discussed and then there was also more um discussion about it needing like different parts that need to be implemented um and then they're gonna wait probably a couple months to implement those things and then a big part of the call had to do with the mainnet readiness checklist which is basically just like a list of everything that made or did not make uh certain parts of the main net or different test networks ready for the 1559 inclusion a couple major points that were discussed were 1559's dependence on other eips and therefore the way to properly schedule and implement those eips so that you could most effectively and most efficiently implement 1559.
Edson - Alita are you going over the 1559 call yeah i think uh the agenda item was just uh our outreach
Alita - no there's also the other one there's two on there but maybe i'm wrong
Pooja - no no that's all right like we are trying to generally cover on uh you know every meetings that is documented by the categories and what are the highlights of those meetings although we have a detailed notes of that but i think this the cat headers meeting can also summarize that that would be helpful
Alita - okay um i think a lot of i think the if we want to just touch on highlights one of the biggest highlight would be that progress is still very much underway so the implementers aren't really ready to implement um and there's a bunch of like different dependencies from different eips that aren't ready to be implemented in the berlin and there's a couple changes that can be made a couple different i think I'm forgetting exactly what it was but there was some like i think it was test net or some sort of interaction with the evm that needed to be implemented and so those are going to be done in separate eips generally speaking there are only four people on the call and um they all seem to be highly engaged that's about it it would be cool to have like it i think it would be good to have a s like a rough a very rough framework for like a review of a call Pooja because i think that would help sort of um structure a cleaner answer
Video | 34:20
Pooja - right right thank you for the updates alita so there was one more item that was listed today and we did not hear much on that it's in that now that you have joined uh about the eipip meeting update we were discussing about the uh you know onboarding of editors and how important it would be if there's anything that you would like to mention based on your survey and the document that you are working on or how you would like to you know uh spearhead this initiative sorry to put you on spot but if there's nothing it's fine because that is an item for eipip meeting but just from cat herders point of view we were thinking if we could support you in any way
Edson - um i think i shared the survey results uh last time i'm not sure if uh you guys saw that uh let me let me pull it up real quick see if i could find that
Pooja - yeah that would be great
Edson - but uh one thing i wanted to bring up is uh since we're updating the statuses i wanted to write a medium article on the cat herders explaining the new statuses you need to
Pooja - yeah that would be awesome yeah yeah this is exactly what other thing that i was trying to mention here we need to reach out to community in more different ways like we have to be talking about whatever changes uh are coming in picture or whatever we are doing here as cat herders so if you have anything in mind and you want to share it as a form of blog please let's coordinate and talk on this channel discord channel and publish it
Edson - yeah um so from the survey we actually didn't get many responses we got three um which is good considering there's only six or seven yeah seven editors um tests that are expected um many tasks uh that making sure that eips are more formatted and technically complete looking at grammar and structure it was related to ethereum and handling things that the bot doesn't handle um a requirement is um reviewing current eips that show up uh someone that understands the difference between a standard and an idea uh someone that knows what should be left out of a standard a good communicator someone who understands ethereum at an intermediate level and someone who can handle conflict and understand github
William - how would you define intermediate in this context as an intermediate understanding of ethereum
Edson - yeah that's a good question um i imagine it's someone that at least has read and understands the yellow paper
William - whoa i mean actually understanding the whole yellow paper i think would be quite advanced no
Edson - probably i mean i'm actually like if you're going to improve like a core eip you have to have some understanding of like how it all kind of fits together
William - ah so i mean at this point we would be looking for editors who have the full ability even all the way to merge there's not going to be like an intermediate category of like you know looking things over getting them ready and pushing them along to someone who has the ability to actually push them forward yeah i mean yeah go ahead
Edson - i mean i don't have the answer to that um one editor is saying they should have an intermediate level but i'm not exactly sure what that means
Pooja - so i think uh the intermediate level uh could be answered from you know the triage information that we are talking about that might be helpful there for the time being and yes uh this particular survey and the documentation that we're talking about was more focused on having a full-fledged eip editor that would be you know would be able to look into every aspect of all the jobs of an editor and should be able to perform that so yeah thank you yeah
William - either way though Edson what is the best thing just to reach out to you personally like what would wha what like what's the best way to move forward with people who are interested for that
Edson - i think the best well the simplest way is to look at who's already reviewing eips if there's anyone and start by reaching out to them oh okay fine um other than that they actually um the only person that i was recommended was lightclient which he's currently get i think he's given write access
Pooja - yeah i think i'm not sure that item is closed but yes we are discussing about that and to me also he seems to be a good candidate for this
Edson - yeah i know right now we're just discussing him for uh triaging but i think i think he'd be fine as a full editor
Pooja - right and it would be great to hear more about the process part you know like i don't know if you get a chance to uh get responses on this part like what would be the formal process earlier it was like three four editors decided and they want to put on something they just add it; it's a good way i mean if people would want to continue that but if there is also something defined and documented would be helpful for other people to refer in future. great thank you for that update we look forward to the next eipip meeting and hopefully we'll get some solution to this thing and this item how we are moving for the selection or maybe onboarding of eip editors. so i think we have covered everything what was listed for today's meeting if there is anything anybody would like to bring up
Brent - i have a quick question for the next people peep an eip meeting on november 3rd so um where is the youtube link for that or is how do i get into that meeting i guess my question
Pooja - the zoom link you're talking about? [yeah] okay uh so uh there is this telegram group uh where people are interacting for people uh if you are willing to join the next meeting or all the meetings going forward i'll be happy to add you in that telegram group and generally i share the zoom link there
Brent - oh okay yeah so yeah i would like to get on that i guess is what i want yeah i can do that, thank you
Pooja - no problem sounds good looks like we are on time and uh yeah okay uh just one one more one last thing uh is this time and a schedule works for everybody for this cat herders meeting or if there's something that people would like to change or you know would be more comfortable for people to join frequently we can discuss about it maybe in the discord channel
Brent - oh yeah works for me but i'm here [lol]
Alita - so for me um because i'm actually kind of i kind of have a pretty messy schedule but um so maybe not take my advice too much but i'm thinking we push it back an hour so then it's like the same sort of schedule with uh the other meetings so because yeah e-i-p-i-p for example it's all like 10 a.m where it's all at 1400 utc um and i think today that might help people like me remember when the time will be um just kind of like implicitly like know
Brent - that would be better for me i like that idea
Pooja - no Alita so here's the thing like i like i present this is at 1400 utc uh like uh ethereum 1.0 meeting all code meeting ethereum 2.0 meeting and most of the meeting it is at 1400 utc but the good point is from next month november onward there would be a change of time for people in u.s so it's going to be an hour earlier i don't know what time zone you are from but it's going to be a hour earlier if people are considering that we should be having it an hour later 1500 utc that would again bring you to the same time like 10 a.m est so that is something that we can consider we want to have it on 1500 utc or we would want to have it one hour later 1600 or maybe flexible timing
Alita - yeah i think it would be very good to not um have it earlier uh and then the well because the one thing is which i'm a very bad uh i thought that all core dabs was at 1500 currently
Pooja - no it's it's 1400. the only meeting that is at 1500 is eipip
Alita - that's so weird okay never mind
Pooja - i think we can continue this discussion in the internal channel itself so yeah that's all for today see you guys in two weeks october 27th thank you for joining everyone
Brent - alita you are gonna do do the notes for this one right
Alita - yeah i got it cool thanks
- Brent Allsop
- Edson Ayllon
- Hudson Jameson
- Pooja Ranjan
- Tim Beiko
- William Schwab
Oct 27, 2020, 14:00 UTC