does ZonedDateTime.from with offset: reject always throw when the datetime is in a DST transition gap? if so, is that intended?

[BurntSushi]

(This is another issue where I'm asking a question to help aide my own understanding.)

Given this code snippet:

let t = Temporal.ZonedDateTime.from(
  "2024-03-10T02:30-04:00[America/New_York]",
  { offset: 'reject' },
);
console.log(t.toString());

I get this exception:

RangeError: Offset -04:00 is invalid for 2024-03-10T02:30:00 in time zone

Similarly, for this code snippet (the only change from above is the offset):

let t = Temporal.ZonedDateTime.from(
  "2024-03-10T02:30-05:00[America/New_York]",
  { offset: 'reject' },
);
console.log(t.toString());

I get this exception:

RangeError: Offset -05:00 is invalid for 2024-03-10T02:30:00 in time zone

Walking through this, I think the reason why these both throw is that the offset in the input wouldn't match the offset in the ZonedDateTime returned. Namely, I believe that 2024-03-10T02:30-04:00[America/New_York] unambiguously refers to 2024-03-10T06:30Z and 2024-03-10T02:30-05:00[America/New_York] unambiguously refers to 2024-03-10T07:30Z. In the former case, the correct zoned instant is actually 2024-03-10T01:30-05:00[America/New_York], and in the latter case, it's 2024-03-10T03:30-04:00[America/New_York]. As you can see, the offset flip flops. I think that is true for every gap. So I think that in turn means that offset: reject always throws for any datetime in a gap, even if it has a correct offset that disambiguates it.

I guess my question here is, is this behavior intended? And if so, what is the rationale behind it? That is, is it preventing the caller from making a mistake somehow? My understanding is that if the offset makes the datetime unambiguous (as I believe it does in this case), then the offset is "valid" and maybe shouldn't result in an error. On the other hand, if offset: reject is just about whether the offset in the input matches the offset in the output precisely, then I think the exception is warranted. I'm just having trouble understanding what would go wrong if the datetimes above were parsed without error.

[ptomato]

Apologies for not getting to this earlier.

This is my understanding of the rationale. One of the reasons offset: "reject" exists is for flushing out strings that were valid times when they were serialized, but have become invalid due to political time zone changes. So if ...T02:30-04:00 or ...T02:30-05:00 were not in a DST gap when you serialized them, the exception would signal to you that they now were, and that your wall clock time has changed for that instant.

@justingrant may have a better understanding than me.

[justingrant]

One of the reasons offset: "reject" exists is for flushing out strings that were valid times when they were serialized, but have become invalid due to political time zone changes.

Sorry for delayed response, I just got back from a long work trip.

@ptomato is correct. The purpose of offset: "reject" is to detect cases where once-valid strings are now invalid. In order to support this case, we apparently lost the ability to use offset: "reject" to parse times in a DST gap. I'm not 100% sure this is the best tradeoff, but like many things related to DST it's a judgement call, and IMO it's not necessarily the wrong call either for offset: "reject" to be as restrictive as possible.

At this point in the proposal where we're very close to Stage 4, I think the bar is quite high to consider this a spec bug. We'd need to have another reason to consider a normative change to this behavior.

[justingrant]

One more thing: because the requested change is making an exception case into a non-throwing case, if the current behavior proves to be wrong then it can likely be changed in a follow-up proposal without breaking apps. Which is another reason that we probably shouldn't change this behavior now! :-)