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OpenSans OTF version? #47

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Fronabulax opened this issue Mar 8, 2022 · 24 comments
Open

OpenSans OTF version? #47

Fronabulax opened this issue Mar 8, 2022 · 24 comments

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@Fronabulax
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My client’s printer asks for an OTF version of the OpenSans font, is one available? They claim they get errors with the ttf version.

Grateful for any pointers,
thanks,
Fredrik
@signalwerk
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@Fronabulax The font here is an OpenType font according to the OpenType-Standard. You can find the files here. I therefore don't understand what your request is.

@signalwerk
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Can you please elaborate what you need?

@anthrotype
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they probably mean a CFF-flavoured OpenType Font (usually denoted with a file extension ".otf") to distinguish it from a TrueType-flavored OpenType font (extension ".ttf"); the former uses PostScript CFF table to describe the glyph outlines whereas the latter uses TrueType glyf table.

In theory the two formats are interchageable, and one should be enough.
Can you please ask your client's printer what error do they get, where and how to reproduce this?

@Fronabulax
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Fronabulax commented Mar 10, 2022 via email

@Fronabulax
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Fronabulax commented Mar 10, 2022 via email

@anthrotype
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exactly, we never make OTFs because TTFs are sufficent, at least that's our understanding.
I'd like to know more about the error and how to reproduce it.
Sorry for my ignorance, what is an "RIP"?

@Fronabulax
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Fronabulax commented Mar 10, 2022 via email

@anthrotype
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this https://stackoverflow.com/a/26313183 suggests one could use fontforge to convert OTF => TTF, but I am not sure how "lossy" that conversion is in practice, you could try at your own risk.

@Fronabulax
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Fronabulax commented Mar 10, 2022 via email

@anthrotype
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but ours is not a "CID" font, it's TrueType OpenType font. Where is the "CID" coming from? Maybe it's the format the TTF gets converted to when it gets embedded in a PDF by a particular PDF distiller that you are using?

@kenmcd
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kenmcd commented Mar 10, 2022

The "CID" font and "Identity-H" are character encoding issues caused by the application, and PDF library, used to create the PDF.
It has nothing to do with the font being OpenType-TT (.ttf), or OpenType-PS (.otf).

@signalwerk
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@Fronabulax thank you for clarification. Maybe we can try to solve your problem by understanding the process you struggle with.

From my past (I'm not active in print industry anymore) I know that printers had problem to process TrueType fonts in the past. But that's a long time ago since the industry agreed on OpenType-Fonts. The Link I sent you above is a link to a 100% valid OpenType-Font. There are two flavors of OpenType (as @anthrotype alaborated). But if your printer is not able to process OpenType it's getting tricky since OpenSans is a OpenType-Font in the Flavor of TrueType. But for me the question is about the process. In the Print industry you usually have two ways how you send fonts to a RIP. It's wrapped inside a PostScript file or it's wrapped in a PDF.

  • PostScript-Embeding → the software you use converts/embeds the local installed font and sends the PostScript-File with all the text and fonts to the RIP. Here your software (InDesign, Quark, Word, ...) needs to create a valid PostScript-File. If this conversion is not done right, the RIP will stop.
  • PDF → the software you use embeds the font in the PDF and this PDF is then sent to the RIP. The RIP needs usually be more modern to process PDFs

If the font is not embedded in the PDF or PostScript the printer can try to install the Font in the RIP direct, but this is usually not recommended.

How do you try to feed the data and font to the RIP? Usually, in Print-Industry there are Standards for exchanging Print-Files.

I would recommand you to bring a PDF/X-3 (or similar) to the Printer. Thats what they are used to.

@Fronabulax
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Fronabulax commented Mar 11, 2022 via email

@Fronabulax
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Fronabulax commented Mar 11, 2022 via email

@kenmcd
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kenmcd commented Mar 11, 2022

It says “font name is not unique (22 matches on 1 page) and lists 22 instances one of which refers to a “TrueType CID”

No font name should be "TrueType CID" - that should only be the font type.
Which could indicate some corruption in the PDF.
Or the PDF was not created properly.

What application is creating the PDF?
Can you supply a sample page of the PDF which has this issue?
Or the whole thing?

@Fronabulax
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Fronabulax commented Mar 12, 2022 via email

@signalwerk
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@Fronabulax did your last mail contained an attachment? I think you use Mail to interact with a GitHub issues. If you would like to upload a PDF you probably need to use the Website. Otherwise, we won't get the file. (Drag and Drop to the comment-section)

@Fronabulax
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ad-ttfx1.pdf

@Fronabulax
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@signalwerk thank you so much for following up! i attached a sample file above. there are several fonts used on this page, and Open Sans is the only one that displays a problem. Exported from Adobe InDesign 2022 / Windows 10 / Fredrik

@kenmcd
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kenmcd commented Mar 16, 2022 •
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ad-ttfx1.pdf

There is nothing wrong with that PDF.
No structural errors, and the encoding is fine.
Most of the Open Sans text is encoded as TrueType/WinAnsiEncoding.
There is one line which is encoded as TrueType (CID)/Identity-H and that is:

“Bistros” till finaste “Lyx” i samarbete med Svenska

That is because the curly quotes are not in WinAnsiEncoding.
TrueType (CID)/Identity-H is very common and people submit PDFs with this all the time - with no issues.
Some PDF libraries make everything TrueType (CID)/Identity-H whether it needs it or not, and those PDFs are submitted, and printed everyday.

So there is no issue with the fonts.
And there is no issue with this PDF (but still the full PDF could be corrupted).
The issue appears to be your printer.

@Fronabulax
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Fronabulax commented Mar 16, 2022 via email

@kenmcd
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kenmcd commented Mar 16, 2022

I do worry that converting fonts may introduce other problems. It’s a large client so I wouldn’t want to start spreading dodgy home-fixed fonts around. What do you think? Or shall I tell them to change this one printer service : )

I would replace the printer because this may happen again.
And I have a hard time believing there are no printers in Sweden which can print "CID" fonts. That just seems ridiculous as "CID fonts" have been a part of the PDF spec for many, many years. My guess is the printer has very antiquated equipment and is just making silly excuses.

Attached are some Open Sans OTF fonts.
This is an extended version created by another designer (Bhikkhu Pesala) who added many characters/glyphs, and many OpenType features. Unfortunately the names were broken at the same time so the fonts did not work properly in LibreOffice (or Word). I had long-ago fixed it to work properly in LibreOffice, but I could not find those fonts - so I just fixed it again.
The family has been renamed to: Open Sans LO
Since the family name is different you can install both versions.
OpenSansLO.v1.71.(otf).zip (ZIP, 1.7 MB)

This is a work-around which should get you going for now.
BUT, the real problem is the printer.

@Fronabulax
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Fronabulax commented Oct 11, 2022 via email

@signalwerk
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@Fronabulax I think it's hard to followup with this problem without any new information. The PDF you provided us is a total valid PDF (you can check it in Acrobat with the board-tools provided by Acrobat) and the font is a valid OpenType-Font. We're pleased to help if you can provide us a detailed report what exactly the problem with the font is or how we can reproduce the problem.

@VladWinner VladWinner mentioned this issue Jul 8, 2024
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4 participants
@kenmcd @signalwerk @anthrotype @Fronabulax